Matt and I have been getting a lot of emails, facebook messages, etc from our overseas friends in the wake of what appears to be international news that there has been a large 7.1 magnitude (it has been downgraded from the earlier score of 7.4) earthquake in New Zealand – 40 km west of Christchurch to be precise – that has seen a state of emergency declared.
Being in Auckland, over 1000 km or 670 miles away from the epicentre, we slept right through it and did not notice a thing. We woke up to full power and everything functioning as normal. It was only the banner stripped across the Saturday morning kids TV program that alerted us to there being anything different about this Saturday.
We have now heard from most of our friends in Christchurch and everyone seems to be ok, if a little shaken – power outages and water restrictions seem about the worst any of them have personally suffered. Fellow blogger and friend Andy Moore reported on Facebook that his brother’s house collapsed but that his brother is ok. News reports so far report two serious injuries, no fatalities.
Good sites for up to date news reports:
NZ Herald
TVNZ – in addition to news reports, The Herald has a page dedicated to showing photos of the earthquake damage
TV3
Stuff
NewstalkZB
GeoNet is worth a look too – they have all the specs of the Christchurch earthquake and its aftershocks on their recent earthquakes page.
We are praying for the people of Christchurch and those working to help them.
A common objection to belief in the God of the Bible is that a good, kind, and loving deity would never command the wholesale slaughter of nations. In the tradition of his popular Is God a Moral Monster?, Paul Copan teams up with Matthew Flannagan to tackle some of the most confusing and uncomfortable passages of Scripture. Together they help the Christian and nonbeliever alike understand the biblical, theological, philosophical, and ethical implications of Old Testament warfare passages.
Thanks for the update. Really glad to hear that you and the little ones are ok. I’ve never commented here before as I’m new to the blog, having just been introduced to it after listening to Matthew’s Apologetics 315 interview (I’m also just starting to listen to the Ray Bradley debate).
I’ve been following Glenn Peoples’ blog for some time, though, and I see Matthew popping up in the comments there from time to time. Have you heard how Glenn is? Does he live near where it happened?
Both your site and his were down today shortly after reports of the quake. I suppose either some communications infrastructure was disrupted, or your hosting service was affected somehow (either directly or by the power outage).
(I’m in the USA, by the way)
Nice to see that God is looking after the good people in Auckland!
(Glenn’s fine, BTW. He just reported in at Beretta.)
Just a thought.
Aren’t earthquakes classed as acts of god?
I wonder what Christchurch, a city with a very religious sounding name, did to anger him, her, it, whatever to deserve this???
Glad to hear you all are ok. Sounds like damage even in Christchurch may be minimal considering the magnitude of the quake. Depth, location, and geology play major parts in it, too. I went through an 8.2 on Guam back in 1993. There was substantial damage to many buildings, including a major downtown hotel. May God bless you and keep you all safe.
Glenn is actually staying with us for the weekend as he is speaking for Thinking Matters at Auckland Uni on Monday – he is fine, as are his family – they were a good 5 hours away from the epicentre so well out of harms way.
Hey Paul, Christchurch has a lot of whores and abortion loving people walking the street, so I’d imagine thats why God decided to give the old tectonic plates a bit of a shake. I take it that all the churchs and faith schools are ok.
Our house has been significantly damaged and will need major rebuild though nowhere as badly as some of our neighbours. There is an entire row of relatively young modern houses that will need to be demolished right next to us. We have power again but no water or sewerage. Our shop got all messed up but no real damage. Several landmark buildings in Kaiapoi have been damaged and are being pulled down for safety reasons.
oddly i never play pick up sticks on the sabbath, prefer to go cruising on my motorbike—cant be enough sex down here or our population wouldnt be falling behind Aucklands so badly
Haiti, Pakistan and China are sending aid, all now OK
Tis the Lords vegence for Cantabrian fornication,homosexuality and the picking up of sticks on the sabbath no doubt…
@ Paul Bennett & Richard P
I find your exchange to be off-putting. Why would your gut response to something like this be to see how you can spin it as a point for your respective sides to win? If you want to sell your perspective, a far better way to do it would be to just express concern for people and make sure everyone is OK like most of the commenters are doing. Or, at least, if you want to sell your perspective to me that would be the best way to do it.
Paul Bennett, Richard P and anonymous
Perhaps if you lived in christchurch and woke up to your house rolling your kids screaming and unable to even stand to get to them, then to be plunged into complete darkness you’d have a little more compassion as we are being rocked by after shock after after shock.
Let’s hope that the gale force winds prediction is wrong and that the power stays on and that everyone gets an uneventful nights sleep!
We heard about the plane crash tonight on the news – awful tragedy. It has been a rough day indeed for the South Island.
There is definitely a time and place and this is not the time.
My kids are worried by news of aftershocks and the possibility of there being another big one as they prepare for bed and yet they are secure in the knowledge that they are safe in Auckland. It struck me as they have voiced these concerns over the day and particularly just now that children in Christchurch must be a lot more scared as they head to bed tonight. One of the challenges of parenting is finding the right words to reassure our children in the face of their fears – for mine tonight I can confidently say “don’t worry, Auckland doesn’t get earthquakes” but the task of soothing little ones off to sleep in other parts of the country may not be so easy.
Our prayers are with Jeremy and Cpederson and our other Cantabrian commenters.
I hope that the tools I make here in Central Otago can be used to help rebuild ChCh. They have been used in Haiti and are made to help get people out of earthquake damage. Lots of positive vibes to all the people affected and to Fox Glacier.
Thankyou Madeleine and others your concern and prayers are much appreciated
Your thoughts and kind words are very much appreciated, I have 2 children asleep in my bed currently as they are scared of the aftershocks and 2 more who plan to camp on the floor. We are all a little concerned about the gale force winds expected here tomorrow and fear we may lose power again.
My thoughts go out to the families of the nine who where killed in Fox Glacier today.
I felt it here in Dunedin, but it wasn’t enough to wake up most people. The people over the road didn’t even know about it when I went over there after breakfast.
It is however staggering to have such a large event in our largest city, and so close to us.
As I posted earlier (on my blog), the supermarket seems to have had a run on bottled water. I guess people thought it would be a good time to stock up.
It’s funny because outside of 80 extra police borrowed from Auckland there aren’t really any serious immediate needs (i.e. that can’t be met locally) even though so many buildings have collapsed.
i’m so relieved.
This is devastating for Christchurch……. the most terrifying thing I have ever experienced in my entire life. House moving so much that I could barely stand up. Children screaming in terror and all in pitch black…. it was 4.35am wind the clock back 12 hrs to 4.35pm and yes there then would of been loss of life. It was a shallow earthquake where in parts the land has just liquified so we don’t truelly know the extent of damage as yet.. Today is another day with gale force winds predicted yeah and oh don’t forget the ongoing after shocks some reaching magnitude of over 5. Trust me we have not been let off lightly this is catastrophic. This earthquake was the same magnitude as Haiti. Shame on you knockers………..
Sorry.
Apologies to all for my earlier insensitive remark.
I did not intend to cause offence, but realise that it can and has.
I’ll think more carefully about future posts.
Once again sorry to all.
Nice to see an apology… well done Paul
As I said there is a time and place for such discussions as you are not wrong Max, people do have such questions and it is normal for them to arise to the forethought of one’s consciousness in the face of catastrophes and disasters and this blog is an appropriate place to discuss them however notwithstanding this one should pause and consider appropriate phrasing of such questions and be sure one is being sensitive given the very harrowing nature of such events.
Paul was right to apologise for how he approached the issue given the timing but I agree that there is nothing wrong with approaching the issue itself and I agree it is an issue worthy of discussion.
Actually I am disappointed Paul apologized.
People often ask theological questions about current events. Often they are phrased in much much nastier ways than Paul phrased his. Paul in fact merely restates the point made in the book of Job.
Sure – I guess Paul’s comment came across as a bit bitter and angry. But this is understandable when you actually DO get people with twisted theological views saying thing like the New Orleans disaster was because they let Ellen visit and so on. I guess I read it as a response to the offensive things other people say rather than offensive in itself…. and it is long enough now for me to start saying stuff like this I think.
I can’t even be bothered to respond to your shallow posts, maybe if you where here and experienced the earth quake … you have no idea…
hi my name is hope tagoai and i lke to tell you that i want to help people
Yeah.. it is a blog for discussing theology… so that is the focus… I would not comment of theological issues on a blog set up to provide water for instance… this is not that blog. Problem?
First rule of so-called “acts of God.”
1. Shit happens.
That is all.
Sympathies to anyone stuck in Christchurch who visits the blog.
Why do you have guns and bullet holes on your website? I find this somewhat at odds with the messages you convey and your apparent Christian values. It reminds me of a certain Republican ex-president hypocrite who expouses the virtues of God, but uses guns and violence as a tool to further his agenda.
@Richard P
Get some compassion mate.
So many people have lost heaps in this earthquake and yet you are being sarcastic and immature.
Get a life.
This is directed to Matt Flannigin :)What’s your opinion on the state of Religious Education at high school level?
l
how are the people in christchurch are they alright
@Madeleine – I used to think that Christchurch didn’t get big earthquakes. I used to think they were for places like Wellington and Rotorua. Who would have guessed there was a fault line this close to us?
We appreciate your thoughts and prayers.
@Paul Bennett, Richard P, anonymous et al – we experienced a miracle here at 4:35am Saturday morning. With a 7.1 Magnitude quake close to a city of 400,000, there was not a single fatality. God holds us in the palm of his hand in Christchurch.
@ Adulcia,
Using that logic then, how do you account for all those killed in other earthquakes in other places?
For example, what had the good people of Napier done differently from you guys in Christchurch in 1931 that killed 256 and hospitalised over 400 that incurred god’s wrath?
Please explain
@Paul Bennett:
I refer to Luke 13 – Jesus points out that those who were killed when the tower in Siloam fell on them were no more or less guilty than everyone else in the city.
The way I see it, earthquakes are catastrophies caused by the fact we live in an imperfect world. They are not individual judgements on the communities they fall upon. The people of Haiti or Napier or any other community devastated by other earthquakes are neither more or less guilty of sin than we are in Christchurch. All have sinned and fallen short of God’s Glory (Romans 8) and are in need of His divine grace.
There are a number of good reasons why we have had no fatalities, and I choose to give thanks to God for good building codes, and the fact that the earthquake happened at a time of the day when most people were at home, not in the CBD where a lot of the damage was. There have also been numerous accounts of “lucky” escapes for some people, for example a ceiling collapsing on a bed just seconds after the occupant was able to leave the room. Even non-believers are using the word “Miracle”. However, we are no more righteous than people in any other city, merely the grateful recipients of God’s grace at this time.
@ Adulcia,
When you say that:
Even non-believers are using the word “Miracle”.
I wonder then if you are aware of Littlewood’s Law, framed by Cambridge University Professor J. E. Littlewood. See more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Littlewood%27s_law
That’s why I rationally view an earthquake or any other natural disaster and the survivability rates and stories as being down to chance. Nothing more, nothing less.
Not to say those events aren’t terrifying to live through, but no divine influence at play one way or the other.
What I actually feel you are displaying is confirmation bias, where the biases appear in particular for emotionally significant issues (such as having survived an earthquake) and for established beliefs. (such as your strong religious ones)
Nice comments!
really interesting!!
Post some more information please!
i’m hungry make me some sandwich!
hey anyomne seen the t.v programme called Bob the Builder?
Guess what?!?!?
I the main character!!!!
No you are not. You are just some silly person with nothing better to do. How about getting a job and actually contributing to society?
Much as it pains me to say so, Paul is more correct in this.
It was a fortunate combination of events that resulted in a very severe earthquake generating no casualties, however it was not such an unlikely combination of events that I would consider the odds extraordinary.
First world building standards, and the hour in which the earthquake hit minimised the risk to Christchurch’s citizens.
That said all “miraculous” events have to be evaluated on their own merits. They can’t be dismissed as “confirmation bias” as some are wont to do. Intelligent agents don’t follow any particular rules of causality.
If one weekend I mow my mum’s lawn, and another I don’t, critics can’t dimiss her contention that I mow her lawn just because it doesn’t always happen.
@Paul Bennett:
I was not attempting to explain why I believe what I do on the basis of an earthquake. I was attempting to explain how I, as a Christian, understand the question of Why do Bad Things happen to Good People, and vice versa. There is a misconception that Christians believe that Disasters are punishments for sin, and prosperity is reward for righteousness. You displayed that misconception in your original comment. Most Christians don’t actually believe that. Just like we don’t actually believe in an old man with a white beard sitting above the clouds.
Yes I have a bias. My bias is the result of many years of honest questioning and seeking answers, followed by 20 years of honestly living out my Christian faith.
You are also displaying a bias. You deny any reality beyond what you can see, touch and measure. Hundreds and thousands of people, including some very intelligent thinkers, believe in a spiritual reality that is equally relevant. Are you willing to acknowledge your bias, and honestly seek to understand what Christians actually really believe?
Actually Jesus had something to say on the subject of disasters.
ref Luke 13:1-8, John 9:7-11
It could pretty much be summed up as “shit happens! how are you responding?”
Are you thankful for the good even in the midst of bad, are you a helpful fruitful type of person or just a whinger?” The question God asks us is not “what have you got?” but rather “what are you doing with it?”
Adulcia is right to be thankful for the grace she finds even in disaster.
@ Adlucia,
First you state:
There is a misconception that Christians believe that Disasters are punishments for sin, and prosperity is reward for righteousness. You displayed that misconception in your original comment.
Just to put things in perspective, there has been, and continues to be huge numbers of both Christians and members of other faiths who do believe this. For example that New Orleans was struck by hurricane Katrina, sent by god, due to some supposed sinful behaviour on the part of the city population.
So I wouldn’t call it a misconception on my part, given the number of religious people happy to voice just such a stance, but I’m glad at least that you personally don’t hold such a view.
Now, as far as confirmation bias goes, you are right. Everyone, myself included, displays confirmation bias to one degree or another.
The point I specifically made in relation to it, was that especially when people are undergoing highly emotionally stressed circumstances then they are much more susceptible to exhibiting bias, for example, after the death of a close relative, they may find that they will claim to have been visited by the deceased or heard them speak to them and so on, hence your reason for claiming the “miracle” that you claim in the lack of fatalities. Completely understandable in the circumstances.
You end by asking me if am honestly willing to try and understand what Christians actually really believe?
Easy answer yes. One of the main reasons that I engage with debate on this blog, attend debates like the one Matt had at Auckland Uni, read both atheist and theist literature and try to be open to new ideas is exactly for this reason.
Finally, I understand that your “faith” no doubt provides you with both comfort and strength during such an extreme situation.
However, as “religious faith” is based on a belief “not resting on logical proof or material evidence.” I cannot share it.
@people like goiiis! and bob the builder: this is not the place for comments like that. This blog is specifically for the earthquake.
A little maturity would suffice in order to show respect to those in Christchurch.
that was sad
Nah g your sad aye. Show some respect to those in christchurch soleh
HOW THE Duck IS BOB THE BUILDER A.K.A daniel ji a stupid student of rutherford college not had his posts deleted
Because we pretty much don’t moderate comments.
Yes! Too many silly comments on this page. After all, ethics, theology, and philosphy should be at the centre of these discussions, don’t you agree Bryyan, and Silio? Peace out. Interesting video by the way…
sup
WOW i hope everyone is ok. And my school raised over $1000 for christchurch.
And i’m proud to.
Good on you Gabi! That’s the way sistah. the world needs more like you aye. Go hard!
@Goiis!: Who’s Bryyan? I think you’re on the wrong page eh. Nah jokes g. But that’s true man. all that I know about philosophy, religion and ethics, I’ve learnt from this fantastic website. Thanks to matt and madeleine.
@Silio
Thanks for agreeing with me dude! Those discussions these Matt, Paul, and Jeremy characters are having are honest to G.O.D interesting. Guns.
faaaah mean earthquake aye people
[…] earthquake in Christchurch, New Zealand this afternoon. While it may have been smaller than September’s 7.1 magnitude earthquake, all reports show that this one was far worse in terms of its violence and […]
ohh my gosh theres alot of nasty comments on here
What the hell has abortions and whores got to do with the lives that r lost in christchurch. People are without husbands, wifes, nanas, granddads, dads. mums, children and all you give a fuk about is abortions and whores grow up your from another planet.
Historical and Scientific reality now in play
July 22, 1973 USA Senate passes resolution S.71 calling on US government to “seek the agreement of other governments to a proposed treaty prohibiting the use of any geophysical modification as a weapon of war. The third activity listed was “any earthquake modification activity which has a purpose, or has one of its principal effects, the release ot the strain energy instability with the solid rock layers beneath the Earth’s crust.” Bulletin of Atomic Scientists May 1976
1975 USA Senator Claiborne Pell, stated that: “We need a treaty now…before the military leaders of the world start directing storms, manipulating climates and inducing earthquakes against their enemies.” http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/geo_science.htm
June 5, 1977, New York Times described the great earthquake which destroyed Tangshan, China on July 28, 1976, and killed over 650,000 people.
Just before the first tremor at 3:42 am, the sky lit up like daylight. The multi-hued lights, mainly white and red, were seen up to 200 miles away. Leaves on many trees were burned to a crisp and growing vegetables were scorched on one side, as if by a fireball.
Jan 1978, Dr. Andrija Puharich, MD, LL.D, issued a detailed research paper entitled ‘Global Magnetic Warfare – A Layman’s View of Certain Artificially Induced Unusual Effects on The Planet Earth During 1976 and 1977.’ In his paper, Dr. Puharich stated, “Of the many great earthquakes of 1976, there is one that demands special attention – the July 28, 1976 Tangshan, China earthquake.”
Jan 1978 edition of Specula magazine ran an article which described an incredibly profound phenomenon that could be produced within the Earth by what is called the ‘Tesla Effect.’ According to the article, electromagnetic signals of certain frequencies can be transmitted through the Earth to form standing waves in the Earth itself. In certain cases, coherence to this standing wave can be induced wherein a fraction of the vast, surging electromagnetic current of the Earth itself feeds into and augments the induced standing wave. In other words, “much more energy is now present in the standing wave that the …amount being fed in from the Earth’s surface.” By interferometer techniques, giant standing waves can be combined to produce a focused beam of very great energy. This can the be used to produce earthquakes induced at distant aiming points.
April 1997 USA Secretary of Defense William Cohen stated at a counter-terrorism conference sponsored by former Senator Sam Nunn
“Others are engaging even in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves… So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations…It’s real, and that’s the reason why we have to intensify our ef ” [what other countries!]
Excellent New Youtube about Christchurch with HAARP data just before quake also shows how whales
trying to escape haarp vibrations beach themselves before quake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu0Qiq6AhOU
Everything about HAARP http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20407
Aerosol Weapons http://www.rense.com/general59/aerosolandelectromag.htm
to read this article scroll down http://www.haarp.net/
Very recent article
http://www.examiner.com/exopolitics-in-seattle/expert-chemtrails-are-global-covert-operation-for-total-control-detecting-ufos
HAARP patents and explanatory links
http://www.bariumblues.com/haarp1.htm
please pass this on to everyone you know. Better to be informed than oblivious.